Re: Adventures of Lolo - Crysstaafur (4 replies, 636 views) (2005-May-3)
Eric pretty much nailed it on the money.. but if you *really* want the long version... enjoy! ;)

What I can say is that a 'black box' method was used in making the game. This means in plain Engish, to operate said product in it's intended way, study the behavior of said product in operation, make separate notes for the observed behavior of said product, then use the notes and not the product to make one's own product. Very tedious stuff to do, particularly with software. This would mean to play the game on it's intended console (emu's are a grey line here...), then play the heck out of it, making notes of behavior such as A.I, effects of items, etc.. then use only the notes to make a cloned game. The result is a source code that is geniunely not owned nor created by the original's party, nor infringing their rights in any way. (unlike ripping code deliberately which one *may* be asking for trouble!)
If blackbox methods were considered problematic in a legal sense, coders (professional and hobbyist) would be nailed left and right (right alongside other innovators of other research based technologies...)

Here is a site that the meat of RE and IP rights covered in a clear and intelligible manner...

If you need further details you can email masterbooda or even Jolly Rogers.

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Re: Adventures of Lolo -  2dcoder (3 replies) (2005-May-3)
Don't take anyone's advice on this except for your laywer. I can't believe you seriously think any programmer reading this thread can simply create their own version of any game distributed and legally be able to sell it or give it away for free. Do you REALLY think we can start a team, code our own clone of Halo 2, use different graphics and distribute it legally?
Re: Adventures of Lolo -  Crysstaafur (2 replies) (2005-May-3)
There are several things to consider:
Are you doing this project for profit->Then forget it.
Are you doing this project while it's original is on the market -> TfI..
Are you doing this project by using any or part of it's code->TfI..
Are you doing this project using the original resources-> TfI..
If the above four dont' apply.. then what would the opposite mean??

Keeping a gem alive that has been abandoned.
If you doing this out of pure altruism then there should be no problem *if*
you are not using any of the original resources.
Additionally you would be surprised how many products are made using only
notes written by someone else...
There are at least 10 or 20 court cases that basically lay down how IP should be treated by anyone who is RE for cultural preservation reasons.

To answer you last question, in a word.. just one word.
NO! That won't happen because in that single sentence you've already contradicted at least 3 of the 4 things I listed above that are no no's...
Further in that question lacks an important detail (assuming the other 3 could worked around, which won't). How would you go about making your code for your Halo2 clone? Remember, pinching code for professional purposes is *seriously* frowned upon.

In spite of the above, I do understand the spirit in which you posting your post and I agree.. if you are going to do an Altruistic, cultural preservation open source project of a game that is no longer on the market, you gotta watch what you are doing in terms of IP and RE... I am confident I've done my fair share of research, but it does help to have legal representation. More importantly by knowing where you stand before hand, will allow your legal arbitrator to focus on more important research to your favor...

If anything these past few threads we've made at least achieved one thing.. allowing the vb community to be aware of what's tolerated and what's not in regards to the gaming community.

Out of curiousity, have you posted anything to the vb community? You seem to a have a knack for certain things that would benefit the coding community.
Re: Adventures of Lolo -  2dcoder (1 reply) (2005-May-3)
Not trying to hijack this thread too much, sorry, should have probably posted in the forum. ;) It's the same reason you don't see popular music sites allowing cover bands to post their covers of other artist's music. If you think I'm wrong, take the time to upload your game (as is) to and see if it gets approved. I'd be shocked if they allowed the game to be downloaded from their site. Looking over this thread, it's kind of ammusing we're talking about a what, 20 year old game? But still it's important for other coders to understand.
Re: Adventures of Lolo -  Eric Coleman (0 replies) (2005-May-4)
This isn't the same as music.  For music the use of the lyrics is an infringement of copyright.  If you write your own lyrics then everything is OK.  Same for the actual music, if you write your own music then you can't be sued for it.  Just replace the word "lyrics" with the words "source code."  If you write your own code then you've created an original body of work.  This is how Linux was created.  It's a clone of Unix, but the source code for the programs were written by someone else.  It's really a technicality of what's "written" (lyrics, sheet music, source code) as opposed to what it does (a song, a program).

Copyright © 2002 - 2004 Eric Coleman, Peter Kuchnio , et. al.
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